Thanks, Dick. But it doesn't look like Murphy's is the answer. I have
asked them flat out what I need, do they have it and how much is it. They
replied and I still don't know. They have something and don't have
something. Like I said, frustrating.

It seems like such a simple question.

Steve

RR,

How is cutting coils/cutting coils/replacing with an air shock going to help
keep the tail end on the ground during a steep descent?

Granted, the other measures will help keep more tire footprint on the
ground, but it does not address the fact that the Pinz is so light in the
rear.

I'm using grade 8 bolts, and all the weight I am adding is going under the
body pan.

-Evan

"r" == rangerrickone <pinzranger
r r r r r
This has been hashed out in the archives.

There are two problems, mostly independent. One is the lack of rear
articulation with the truck unloaded. Changing backspacing, spring
rates, etc will help with this.

The other is weight distribution. An empty Pinz is a disaster waiting
to happen. They're less stable on the road, and they're just plain
terrifying on downhills off-road. There is absolutely nothing you can
do to address this problem except fix the weight distribution. You
can move weight from the front to the back (batteries, gas tank, not
much else), or you can add weight to the back.

ericb
'71 710M

Ya - you are probably right - fuel economy would suffer to a degree I guess,
though I don't know how much one would notice, the trucks are pretty low in
fuel economy already because they are geared down for torque/pulling loads.
I have my doubts that adding a few hundred pounds would make an appreciable
difference - but it would be interesting to know.

Hey Eric - you been ridin' around with an extra 500 lbs. of brick, any
difference in your mileage?

In any event, lower mileage at the expense of a more stable vehicle is a
reasonable tradeoff IMO.

As to weights bolted to the undercarriage flying into the passenger cabin -
I just don't see that happening. It' take a hell of a whack to knock a thru
bolted 2" square tube off a section of diamond plate, and I don't envision
any great likelihood the weights would end up in the passenger cabin in an
otherwise survivable collision.

OTOH, PR has got a point in that if the plate came loose you might well
encounter some avoidable drama in the forward end of the truck. You make
sure and bolt them things down good Evan!

Scott R. Foster

Steve,

I think the trap you ran into is that military radio communication
equipment in Europe isn't as freely available as it is in the States.
The military guys would never sell their used/old stuff to civilians.
I have no clue what radio is/was used in the Pinz but Switzerland has
their own electronics industry (i.e. Ascom, Swissphone, Oerlikon,
Siemens Switzerland) and it could well be a Swiss made equipment and
based on the above I'd say your chance to get one is very slim.

Juergen

Here is another radio question, only different. Anyone who has installed a
radio or stereo in a Pinz, can you hear it when driving at 50 mph? ...or
is it only for when you are parked? ... or do you have to wear
earphones. I guess this comes back to the differential whine. Should it
be so loud as to not be able to carry on a conversation without yelling or
have an intephone?

Marvin.

At 07:58 PM 5/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:

Juergan:

I'm sorry to hear that, since I like to keep my vehicle stock.

Failing that, I guess I'd have to get something American Military. Do you
have any suggestions on what that should be?

Steve

How about mounting a couple of water cans on the back. That should add
about a 100 lbs.
Marvin.

At 02:08 PM 5/25/2003 -0400, you wrote:

--- In pinzgauer@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <tech@i... Do you
States.
civilians.
has
and
answer. I have
is it.
have
Additional,
archives
message to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi Steve,

I gave you the answer days ago ... haven't you read it?
I now tell the story once again, with some more datails .

Surprisingly, the Swiss Pinzies did not mount european radios (such
as the German SEM 25 which was the standard set on the German
Unimogs), but the US made RT-524, which is part of the AN/VRC-12 and
other similar sets.
This radio uses technology from the seventies: transistor and vacuum
tubes. It is rather bulk and heavy. It works on the FM low band
(approx. 30 to 70 MHz), and is channeled with 50 kHz step.
I believe it should not difficult at all to procure this radio and
its accesories in the USA: it is (or was) mounted also in the M151
(the Mutt) and in the Humvee, plus many other mil vehicles.
I have some pics of the RT-524 in the PC at my office. will post
tomorrow.

Ciao
Ugo Fermi
Ham callsign IW1FQG
1979 710M
Turin, Italy

on 5/25/2003 11:36 AM, Marvin Munster at WB6PKK@... wrote:

Someone (can't remember who) recently said that a Pinz and a stereo are not
terribly compatible. I agree. That said, I do have a radio in my Pinz. At
50 MPH, with the volume turned up, I can hear it well enough to listen to
the news (which is about all I do for easy listening in the Pinz). At a
stoplight, the folks in the next county can also hear it. I also wear
earplugs, which reduce the ambient noise just enough that I can understand
the radio. A headset is not an option. It's illegal in California. If the
truth be told, I would not have put a radio in the truck if I didn't want to
be able to receive news reports. FWIW, a cell phone is also useless. Even
on vibrate I can't detect an incoming call, let alone hear anything.
Surprise, surprise.

Bottom line: if you want high fidelity stereo, buy a Lexus. If you want to
listen to the radio in your Pinz in the parking lot of the local mall, take
your pick.

Just my opinion.

Patrick (the one with the spare parentheses) sends...
--
Patrick K. Preminger
Special Operations & Security Bureau
San Francisco Police Department
(415) 671-3205
(415) 671-3141 fax
(510) 697-0410 mobile

Hi Ugo:

At last I'm getting someplace. Thank you for your information.

I will begin to look for the US made RT-524, which is part of the AN/VRC-12.
I haven't a clue what it looks like, but the research will be interesting.

Can you tell me if this radio can talk to anyone other than another military
radio?

If I should go to a US radio, is there a more modern one I should
investigate?

Steve

"srf" == Scott R Foster <srf72@...
srf srf
Not really. The truck is noticeably slower going up hills.
Considering the difference, not only in off-road manners, but in the
much better manners when doing panic stops on pavement, I consider it
worthwhile.

Any differences in mileage have been masked by my changes in tires,
and inability to properly tune carbs. Every time I think I get the
truck running perfectly, I figure something else out, and then it runs
even better.

As for water tanks, water has a density of 1.0 (in any sane system of
units, at least). Steel, about 7, lead, 11.3. It would take a
significantly larger volume of water to make the same weight. Also,
you'd have to make sure your water tanks were either full, or empty.
Sloshing could be scary.

ericb
'71 710M

Marvin:

I have to agree with Patrick on this one.

I installed a 145 watt AM/FM/CD in my 710 SPECIFICALLY for use as a
public address system inside the Pinz for a guided tour while
operating at VERY low speeds with as much floor soundproofing
installed as possible.

While testing it with the front speakers turned around and the canvas
cab flap down, you couldn't hear diddly at speed unless you cranked
it all the way up! At a stop sign, you join the Gangsta Rap/honkin'
loud 5000 watt sound system owners as Public Enemy #1 on the road!
The only thing worse that you could possibly do to society is to
throw two cases of uncrushed empty Milwaukee's Best beer cans out
your window onto the side of a trail (or any public thoroughfare for
that matter).

Alas, the Pinz is not a concert hall...

Jim "Ack" Cambron

Old Milwaukee inspired music...would that genre be "dumpsta rap?"

Jim, have you ever described to the list what you did with soundproofing? I
don't give a hoot about listening to music, but I would like to not hear the
kids complain about the noise. I have read several accounts in the
archives, and in fact I have an assortment of sound-proofing materials from
J.C. Whitney waiting to be deployed.

-Evan

has anyone ever replaced the body mounts on a 712? DID this help to
cut down on the harmonic vibration noise in the body

Hello
In reference to your vibration enquiry.
Yes a change in body mountings has some effect on the transmission of
vibration into the cab/tub assy. Much success depends upon the condition
of the mountings themselves, such as corroded together, increased shore
hardness due to age/deterioration, and over adjustment of the body
stabilizer to the left of the front swan neck member,
Regards
Dennis @ Lindenengineering.com


-----Original Message-----
From: pinsman2000 [mailto:rmrt@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 7:23 PM
To: pinzgauer@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pinzgauer] body mounts

has anyone ever replaced the body mounts on a 712? DID this help to
cut down on the harmonic vibration noise in the body


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The mounts on my truck look faily new and soft but it doesn't help
vibration noise much. What did a far better job was the soft bedliner
I had sprayed in (I guess that the Durabak would do the same).
Next thing to check is the seal around teh dog house, I replaced about
30% of it and it helped too.

It will never get close to a Mercedes but for offropad it's ok for me.
The stereo I will install (a marine one due to better vibration and
humidity protection) will mainly be used to amplify the ham and CB
radio...

Juergen

Out of curiosity, how do you amplify anything through a car stereo? It has
an antenna and speakers.

Steve

Hello Juergan
As I mentioned the mount has to be in bad shape before there is a
noticeable difference.
Even with seized/corroded assemblies the silentbloc has surprisingly
good insulation properties, however having stated that we have come
across several units that have had some vibration remedied by a body
mount change.
Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen [mailto:kjshover@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 8:41 PM
To: pinzgauer@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pinzgauer] Re: body mounts

The mounts on my truck look faily new and soft but it doesn't help
vibration noise much. What did a far better job was the soft bedliner
I had sprayed in (I guess that the Durabak would do the same).
Next thing to check is the seal around teh dog house, I replaced about
30% of it and it helped too.

It will never get close to a Mercedes but for offropad it's ok for me.
The stereo I will install (a marine one due to better vibration and
humidity protection) will mainly be used to amplify the ham and CB
radio...

Juergen

Hello Steve,

As Ugo pointed out, the US radios are the most "correct". However, both from
an availability and even function perspective, the European equiv's are
quite neat.

Despite earlier comments about European radio availability, SEM series
radios are widely available ex-bundeswher, both commercially from dealers
and on ebay. The SEM-35 is a "work-alike" to the PRC-77. Like the PRC, it is
a man pack with a vehicle mount, etc. There are other SEM series more like
the RT-524.

All of these can be bought for less than the equiv US radio. Working SEM-35
with antenna for about $175-225. Accessories for another $100. PRC-77 is
$350, and you have to use military batteries or buy an adapter. Accessories
are a little cheaper, but not much. RT-524 is $500-1000, as it is in far
more demand for M-151 and hummers. Recognize that for these amounts you can
buy far more capable commercial or amateur gear! You pay alot for the green
paint, and much of that paint is cancerous! (CARC)

Personally. I like the manpack with the vehicular mount and amplifier. More
flexible and less expensive than the RT-524 dedicated mobile.

With regard to communication... any of these radios are only usable on 6
meter and sometime 10 meters amateur allocations. IE: You will need a ham
license.

They are wide band FM, while most other ham FM radios are narrow band. They
can somewhat interoperate, but you'll mainly be happy talking to other
military radios with wideband. You can't receive FM broadcast music, etc.
(Maybe channel 6 TV). No shortwave, CB, etc. Just 28-72 Mhz wideband FM.

The military radio and vehicle crowd usually operate on 51.000 Mhz. Many do
not have licenses. Not many are fined, but it is technically illegal. The
only exception is if the trucks are used on a military reservation, and you
are assigned a frequency by the military, which does happen at some of the
larger shows. Outside of MV shows, you will mainly find hams, who will
expect you to (rightly so) have a license and use your call letters, like
hams are required to)

The RT-524 and PRC will interface to the VIC-1 intercom, which is a handy
(and cool) addition to the pinz on it's own. You can learn more at the
mvintercom yahoo group or my web site:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mvintercom
http://pinztrek.com/pinz/icom

The armyradios mailing list is also quite handy:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios

All that said..... I'd find a dead or gutted PRC-25 or PRC-77 manpack, and
embed a GMRS/FRS FM radio inside it. That's the most useful radio you can
have in your trucks on a trail ride, and probably even the MV show. Keep the
military look in a compact package. Believe it or not, the 10lb, 12x22x4"
PRC radio is only 1 watt, albeit in a rugged package. IE: Your decent
quality GMRS/FRS radio does the same for a fraction of the cost and size.
You really have to love green radios to justify the expense, as the
functionality is easily duplicated for far less.

Have fun!

Alan
km4ba

Simple: Use the CD input (or AUX) as audio input and it works....
If it doesn't have it there are "fake" cassettes available which xfer
the audio signal via the head of the cassette player. "Last resort" is
a small FM transmitter, then you can receive it in FM.
My stereo has the external audio input.


Juergen

Hi Al:

That is very interesting. I'm afraid I don't understand the part about wide
and narrow bands, but I do understand about a dollar savings. The more I
look into putting a radio into my Pinz the more complex the issue gets.

It sounds like the military surplus radios are useless for anything other
than talking to other military radios.

I used UHF radios, mobile and hand held, on a repeater system in the
detective business years ago. Bought some kind of license and talked on
them.

What is so different about these radios that you have to have a ham radio
operators license? Aren't they very short range?

Thanks, Steve

OK. Got it. You have to buy a radio with special features. Not just a
plain old car radio. Interesting.

Steve

Steve,

if you have the appropriate amateur radio license you can work on
shortwave all around the globe. A 2m mobile with 40-50W is good for
quite some coverage (depends on terrain) but there are tons of
repeaters which allow you to get (almost) as far as you want and with
a lot of them you can even make (short) phone calls (phone patch). The
ham radio repeater coverage is actually better then the cellphone
coverage (in the US, not in GSM land).That's why I don't own a cell
phone, only ham radio equipment.

Difference between narrow band and wide band FM is the amount the
frequency gets shifted to modulate the audio. Narrow band is usually
somewhere between 1.5 and 5kHz (depending on what service) and
wideband can be up to several hundred kHz. A wideband FM receiver can
receive a narrow band FM signal IF there is no communication in the
other channels and the audio output will be very weak. A narrowband FM
receiver will only catch a portion of the wideband modulated signal
and either produce a very distorted audio output or none (depends on
how wide the wideband is and how narrow the channel filter in the
narrowband receiver).
As an example: ham radio and FRS are narrowband FM, FM stereo is wideband.

Despite the fact that I have a ham license I will install a CB radio
in my truck (yikes, I said it....) as the likelyhood that somebody
close by operates a CB is higher and all the fire-watch towers in our
area monitor channel 9.

Juergen
DB3TB

Steve,

not really, most of the modern stereos have an input for a CD
player/changer. That's where you can connect other audio signals too.
Hit the CD button and it's actually your transceiver.

Juergen

Hi Juergen:

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I'm still not sure which way I will
go with the project right now.

I have been searching the internet for the GMRS/FRS radios you mentioned. I
only get pages of hand held radios. Nothing that would mount in a vehicle.

Thanks, Steve

Steve:

You can use almost any commercial UHF FM radio (up to 35 watts)
on GMRS and the license is easy to get. also, GMRS allows use of
repeaters to extend the communications range. (GMRS=General Mobile
Radio Service. Was originally k own as Class A Citizens Band).

FRS (Family Radio service) is also in the 420-470 MHz FM band, but is
limited to small, low power handheld radios. No license needed for FRS.

Regards,

Dick

Steve wrote:

Hi Dick:

I used to have a class ? citizens band license an awfull long time ago. Is
it any good for this purpose? I think I even remember the call letters.

I located some vehicular type ham radios on the internet, but they are in
meters and look like souped up CB radios. They are in meters. What meters
corospond to the military radios?

Is this license you refer to the tech one, no code?

Thanks, Steve

Steve:

6 meters ( 50 MHz range) and 2 meters (146 MHz range).

Dick

Steve wrote:

After dampening the floor of my 710k, I can hear my radio fine at 65 - ya
it's a bit loud, but I just turn it down a notch when I slow down [no great
shakes, a pretty vanilla 4 channel JVC AM/FM stereo CD player - rated at
about 100 watts].

I don't think you could ever get a 710m that quiet though - not unless you
get a heavy top - or a light one and then damp the panel resonances out of
it.

Scott R. Foster

Si un passionné de pinz français suit cette liste, je cherche à
savoir ou et quand a lieu le rassemblement de l'association des pinz
français (jura? 1er juin?)merci pour toute réponse.
Jean pierre.
[this message is about the meeting organized par the french
pinzgauer club in June]

Attachments :

Hi Steve - and all,

Attached is a picture of an RT-524 military radio.
Unfortunately, not in a Pinz: it is mounted on a CUCV
(a.k.a. Chevrolet Blazer). But radio is exactly the
same.
If anybody want to see how the German SEM radios look
in a 710M, have a look at "Ugo's Pinz" folder in the
Photos section of the list.

Ugo Fermi
IW1FQG
1979 710M
Turin, Italy


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Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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Sticking my foot into this to clarify and crystallize even more:

It all depends on what you want to do.

If you want your truck to have an authentic military radio, you buy
one of the radios suggested elsewhere in this post and live with the
fact that you cannot talk to a lot of folks and then you must be
properly licenced or have permission for the use of that frequency.
This choice would be great if your goal is to preserve a bit of
military history (and maybe make some money renting your truck for
use in war movies).

If you want to talk to pinzies and other wheelers on the trail, you
buy a CB radio (no licence needed).

Third choice, buy an authentic military radio and modify it to do
what you want to do. You end up with an excellent education in
electronics, a radio that isn't quite authentic anymore and a lot of
time and money spent.


hope this helps!

Jim Cambron

"k" == kjshover <Juergen
k k k k
Hey! I've got a Mercedes that's louder than your Steyr. Watch what
you say about Mercedes, they're not all luxo barges.

Mercedes Benz does sell 24V head units. I've no idea of the quality,
availability, etc, but they exist. If you can find one, and don't
mind the Unimog logo on it, you could run it without a converter.

ericb
'71 710M
'89 U1150L

Eric,

the 24V stereos Mercedes sells are usually from Becker. Very good
quality and you will always see it on the price tag..... Some of them
are actually 12V radios with a build in voltage converter......
What do the trucks and semis run on here? In Europe they are 24V which
gives a market large enough to build stereos and other equipment for
them........

The "Mercedes" I took as comparison was a modern one, not a 25 year
old Unimog. Drive a Mog 5000 and you have the feeling to sit in a
sedan (and a $200k+ hole in your pocket).....

Juergen

"k" == kjshover <Juergen
k k k k k k
Just about everything in the US is 12V. Even semis. I was stunned
(and drooling) when I went into an Austrian truck stop. 24V coffee
makers, 24V soldering irons, 24V TVs, etc....

k k k
The Mog list is drooling over the UGN500 now. Brutus out in the Bay
Area got one, and everyone's loving it. I think it's the first
privately owned UGN model in the US.

Either way, they're a departure from the traditional Mog line. The
front diff lock is now optional, and they run driveshafts rather than
torque tubes. Still cool, but different.

I was just being annoying about the Mercedes thing. I love telling
people that I have a Mercedes Banz truck with 20" wheels and a custom
paint job. They're all thinking bling-bling on an M Class, and are
nowhere near what I actually drive.

ericb
'71 710M

Thanks, Ugo.

Steve



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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Hi Jim:

How is anyone in rural Florida going to get in trouble with an old military
radio that only broadcasts a very short distance? Is only used to talk to
other military radios owned by other civilians. Can't be intercepted or
interfere with narrowband civilian radios.

If I have to take the time to go get a ham tech license, so be it. But
realisticly, there can'y be any possibility of even raising an enforcement
eybrow over this rare and occasional event.

Steve

Apathy is a powerful tool... use it wisely my friend.

Scott R. Foster

Actually, it can be quite easily intercepted by most any scanner and can
quite easily cause interference with narrow band civilian radios. Depending
on band conditions, the range can be over a hundred miles. Very rarely is
it caught by the FCC but a couple of months ago someone near me was fined
$5,000 for unintentionally causing interference with a low power military
radio.

Getting a Ham license is fairly easy and inexpensive. Where are you
located, I could direct you to contacts for the exam.

With the license, you can use the military VHF radios on most of the
50-54MHZ (6meter) band. You can also adjust most of the radios to narrow
band (+/- 5KHz deviation) with a simple turn of a pot and communicate with 6
meter Ham radios too.

Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
631 344-4561 work
631 286-5677 home
'73 710M

That's interesting. It would probably make sense to go get the tech
license.

My next post will be a quote for a radio system. I'll keep the supplier
anonymous. It sounds pretty expensive. Tell me what you think.

Steve

Ron:

I am in Gainesville, Florida.

Steve


6

Hi Steve,

I'll look up info for you tomorrow.

Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
631 344-4561 work
631 286-5677 home
'73 710M

Steve,

It depends on the frequency you use...ham or commercial. Amateur bands
are adjacent to MIL and commercial bands. And those MIL radios aren't
really short range, unless you compare them to the short wave radios used to
talk around the world. VHF signals can and do travel hundreds of miles.



Dick

Steve wrote:

That price is outrageous for such an old radio.

Dick

Dick writes:
You are absolutely right. But that's what the military paid, probably more.
These radios are still in service with some countries, even some units in
the US only recently switched to the SINGARS which replaced them.

You can buy these radios with warrantee & accessories from several suppliers
as new or depot reconditioned. They are often sold to 3rd world countries.
Prices are sky high!

The next tier is the surplus folks, which primarily price on supply and
demand. The RT-524 is in heavy demand by the surplus hummer and M-151
crowd, as is the PRC-77.

Then you have the amateur/individual hamfest & ebay crowd. Usually less
expensive, may or may not come with accessories. Often bought in pallet
loads at GSA sales, and pieced together to make 3 working radios out of 10
dead ones, etc. (Probably what the surplus folks did)

So unless you are really into exact duplication of the original equipment,
not much bang for the buck. Still fun to play with, but it's gotten
expensive. In Europe there is less demand, and apparently more supply of
even the US stuff, so you see more dealers and individuals. Shipping is the
killer. A working PRC or SEM that can be bought for $35 or so in Germany
costs almost $160-180 shipped to the US. Which is why Mike Murphy sells them
for $200 or so. Most folks will pay a bit extra not to have to deal with
foreign currency, shipping, etc. He probably pays far less for shipping and
get's pallet loads by something other than airfreight.

With regard to being caught...... 6m or 10m can go hundreds of miles or
longer due to skip. You may interfere with someone and not know it. Happens
all the time. Then the FCC get's involved, and they DF you. I'd not play on
commercial or military freqs. You will get caught. The amateur frequencies
are less likely to trigger immediate action, but the tech license is easy
enough to get now it just does not make sense to be illegal.

Have fun!

Alan

Attachments :

Used RT-524

http://www.fairradio.com/rt-524.htm


At 05:32 PM 26/05/03 -0400, you wrote:

Hi, all-

The Rocky Mountain Moggers 2003 Rendevous is scheduled for June 20th
through June 22nd, 2003. We will be camping west of Cameron Pass, west
of Fort Collins, Colorado.

Any and all Unimogs, Pinzgauers, Haflingers, Volvos or whatever are
welcome to join us for this get-together and trail rides. :)

Please look at:
http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com/outings.html
for details. You will need to sign up for a camp spot.

Hope to see you there!
--
___________
-Ron DePugh / _______ \
1963 UNIMOG 404.115 Fire Tender VLF | | | | |
Boulder, Colorado USA [] |_/_|_\_| []
mailto:ron@... || \__o__/ ||
Rocky Mountain Moggers \| O//+\\O |/
http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com ===========
High Country River Rafters |x| |x|
http://www.hcrr.org |_| |_|